New smokepoler in need of assistance

[ferris bugler]

Hi all. Looking forward to learning from this forum. I have never used muzzleloaders before. I have always hunted archery and my dad started shooting a muzzleloader so we could hunt elk during the same time here in Colorado. He passed away from cancer a couple of years ago and I am now trying to learn how to use his guns so I can hunt deer this year during our September season. One gun is a 50 cal disc and the other is a 54 cal TC Hawken. I have been shooting the guns this summer trying to get used to them, and how things all come together when you pull the trigger. One gun is a 50 cal disc and the other is a 54 cal TC Hawken. I now feel as though I know the gun well and as I try to dial it in I have some questions and some concerns. Hoping someone can help me out.

First of all I think something slipped through the cracks when my dad was sick and after the last time he fired the knight it didn't get clean. I realize that blackpowder is corrosive, and the gun sat for three years or so. My worry here is that when I am loading the bullet with the ramrod everything feels fine until I get about 3 inches from where the load seats. At that point it feels as though it gets a little lose and then tightens back up where it seats. Is that normal? There is still tension but not as tight as the rest of the barrel. If there is an issues it something that is fixable?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Novemberelk]

Let me ask you this my friend... How does the gun shoot?

[ferris bugler]

I guess that would lead me to my next question. The gun shoots very well at 50 yards. And then at 100 it doesn't seem so good, but I'm not sure if my if I am over powdered and that is affecting my accuracy, or if I'm just not shooting well. I need to start eliminating things and wanted to start at the beginning. It was extremely windy while shooting so that might be a major factor as well.

[Novemberelk]

Seems like you need to spend some time working up a load. Lots of variables and can certainly take some time but extremely satisfying. I'm in oregon and we have to use loose powder and naked conical bullets without a sabot so I might be in a different boat than you. I bet that you can find the correct combination through trial and error. You should find someone local to you who is experienced and can teach you.

Meanwhile, what powder, bullet and primer options are you using?

[a1smokepole]

Give us the powder and load you us bullet and primer you us will be helpful. I no in Colorado you can't shoot sabot and no scope in ml season. you can take some JB bore bright.http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-c ... d1159.aspx and clean your gun with this and help the spot and bore out. and yes wind can cause that you can post a pic of your shoot may help and what the temp was when your shooting . let the gun cool after every shoot can help as well.

[ferris bugler]

Thanks for the replies. I have been shooting 223 gr Powerbelt 50 cal aerotip bullets to get used to the gun. Originally I was shooting 110 grains of GoEx Clear Shot FFG powder. I was only shooting that because I found some made up loads and that is how they were set up. After reading a bunch of info on the internet I think that might be too much powder. So the other day (the first day I was really focusing on trying to get the gun sighted in) I was using 100 grains of powder. I'm, not sure if that is too much as well. It seemed as though the bullets were going all over the place. I also shot some 350 gr Hornady FPB bullets to see if I could get better flight with them. I tried shooting that bullet with 90 and 100 grains of powder. My primers are Winchester W209.

I realize I have a ton of variables going on so my next step is to go to go to the range on a calm day and shoot the Hornady FPB with 90 grains of powder and try to get consistent flight. Can you guys give me an idea on where to start with sighting this this in. Should I start at 50 yards and get things dialed in and then move to 100 and 200? What type of elevation drop should I expect over those distances? Thanks in advance.

[a1smokepole]

One thing or you swabbing after every shot you need to. and the powder you are using I never had good luck with it. get some T7 2f powder and start with 80gr by volume and work up shooting 4 shots for every 10gr of powder and see when it starts to open up. let the bore cool after every shot and swab after every shot. the primers or fine. if this don't work check your breech plug orifice my be too big or just order you a new plug.http://www.knightrifles.com/product/ora ... eech-plug/

[a1smokepole]

Just what to add you need to clean all the oil out of your bore before you shoot it us alcohol on a patch then a dry one then shoot.

[Novemberelk]

i agree.

Start at 50 or even 25 yards to get sighted in and make sure that you have 3-4 good shots per group and disregard the outliers if you think you may have made a poor shot (twiching or bumping the gun). I used to shoot 120 grains rs with a 350 grain maxi hunter and all was good, but with my new knight i started at 90 grains. took me about 25 shots to have a dialed load at 100 yards. that was with the same powder type and same bullet. You do need to clean thoroughly between shots. Remember, your group will change due to fouling and its usually that first shot from a cold clean gun that drops elk and deer to the dirt. I use 2 different solvent patches and an oil patch between shots when working up a load. I use both sides of each patch and use about 50 short strokes down and about 50 short strokes up, then flip the patch over and repeat. Always use a dry patch between solvent patches, same routine 50 up 50 down, both sides. the dry patch after the second solvent patch usually looks pretty clean but my oil patch usually still removes some fouling and the dry patch ran after that oil one is usually clean as a whistle. Also gives my barrel time to cool and lets my head digest what i want to do next.
Feel me?

Be very systematic. Draw a picture of your target and what powder grains your on so you can mark where you hit on the target to compare with confidence after you change powder or yardage.

I think you should ditch the sabot rounds, but that is just me ( and a whole bunch of others) its yet another huge variable. Shoot conicals.

Your 50 yard target is the one where you should be able to start dialing in your Powder loads. just get it close, you will notice when the group starts to open back up and then you can drop it down 5 grains. Then move out to 100 yards. start the process anew. you will probably see about 3 to 6 inches bullet drop depending on bullet weight and powder load. I like to put my target on a larger piece of plywood so i can see if i miss by a foot or two.
Good luck.

[ferris bugler]

Hey guys. Thanks a million for the feedback. Went to the range this morning and things definitely went better than before. Still need to get in a couple more sessions before Muley season starts. I have a couple more questions if you guys have some free time. Seems like 80grains of volume is the right amount with the Hornady 350 gr bullet.

First, my first shot was my main outlier. It was through a clean barrel after the last session. I clean my gun with hot soapy water and then use TC #13 solvent to break down the rest of the powder. After everything looks squeaky clean I run some TC bore butter on a patch through the barrel and then a couple of clean patches. Something I am missing here? How should I get the important shot to go where I want it to?

Second, after each shot I clean the gun with a patch soaked in TC #13 solvent up and down both sides of the patch and then run a wire brush through the barrel to loosen up anything else followed by both sides of a dry patch. Any recommendations on this technique? How long does it take for the gun to cool down between shots?

Third, when I started shooting everything was nice and calm. When I tried my last couple of shots I was trying to hit the target at 200 yards. An app on my phone said the wind was blowing 13 miles and hour, from right to left. I know that isn't exact, but what kind of affect would that have on a bullet? When I started things were pretty close to center and then those last couple shots were a long way left. I haven't adjusted anything, but am wondering if I still need to. It goes along with the trend of my shots even though I was close early.

And last, is the Hornady FPB a sabot? I already have deiced against using the power belts for hunting.

thanks a million.