New shooter needs help

Midwestprowler
Re: New shooter needs help

Post by Midwestprowler » August 10th, 2012, 9:09 pm

Just keep in mind that triple 7 powder is more energetic then pyrodex. Blackhorn 209 is even more so. If your manual lists loads for triple 7 powder in 2f or 3f by all means go for it if it has been tested by the gun maker. My omega manual lists a max magnum load of pyrodex 150gr by volume or black powder. If I was to load 150gr by volume of triple 7 or blackhorn 209 that very well could blowup if not right away over time would weaken barrel if shot that way all the time. Add a heavy bullet like 300 gr bullet weight in front of that adds even more pressure. Blackhorn 209 states not to load any rifle past 120gr by volume right on the bottle. From what I can see triple 7 states 100gr max load by the manufacturer for a 50 cal 54 cal can take 120gr. It would seem to me that triple 7 is hotter then blackhorn 209 but that's not the case it's 100gr by volume cap due to triple 7 creating more barrel pressure then blackhorn 209. Why you might ask? Triple 7 is more dense & heavier then BH209 that's why BH209 can load up to 120 gr by volume & still keep the psi down to a safe level. It's lighter less dense & more energetic <this also is the reason you won't be swabbing after every shot it burns nearly all the powder & gives faster fps all while keeping psi lower. So look at it this way 120gr by volume of blackhorn 209 is like 150gr pyrodex. Triple 7 at a load of 100gr by volume is like 150gr load of pyrodex (maybe not as in feet per second or performance) but you put a pressure gauge on the gun and shoot the max load for any of them powders you will see. Psi peaks (about the same) as 150gr load of pyrodex with blackhorn 209 being the lowest psi peak at max load as recommended by the manufacturer of the powder. The only gun I would know of that this rule would not apply is the savage 10ML it is smokeless & held to centerfire standards & test like SAAMI centerfire standards & could take loads above mag loads. The Savage 10ML-II has been tested to 129,000 PSI-no other muzzleloader can make that claim.

I may be playing it safe here & I'm not the most knowledgeable out here but this just looks like common sense to me ^ anyways hope it helps & have fun :D
P.S. my manual also states to clean my muzzy with water hot water. But I know better blackhorn 209 should never be cleaned with water unless you want a gun with a tar like stuff you cant get off it inside & out.
One thing my manual did state is always follow powder manufacturers load recommendations. If you use anything other then black powder or a approved black powder substitute such as porodex. Pyrodex is the only true approved volumetric equivalent black powder substitute on the market. T7 & BH209 are not due to they are not a volumetric equivalent of true black powder & far more energetic. If it was 150gr would be max load by volume in a muzzy with magnum load capabilities of 150gr. MMP sabots supply most the sabots for sabot ammunition around the world that are pre packed. TC shockwave comes with mmp hph-24 older ones use to come with hph-12. Barnes all come with mmp sabots. The only time this would not apply is if you special order sabots alone not pre packed with bullets from another dealer. Almost all pre-packed use mmp sabots with the exception of The Harvester Crush Rib Sabots. MMP sabots are cheap to make & buy preform very well thats why most use them. The Harvester Crush Rib Sabots cost more. I guess you may get the off brand that will not use MMP sabots but that would not make much sense for the MFG to do as the MMP sabots cost so little compaired to others.

Midwestprowler

Re: New shooter needs help

Post by Midwestprowler » August 11th, 2012, 5:11 am

I thought about putting this in last post but forgot to. The newest entry in muzzleloading from Hodgdon Powder Company is the Triple Seven 50 caliber, 60 grain Magnum Pellets. With two Triple Seven Magnums you can acheive an additional 200-250 fps. In 26" in-line barrels this will normally result in muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 fps .

Note how it states 26" barrel the added barrel length on a test barrel opposed to the 24" barrel used on all other triple 7 loose & pellet powder they tested would add to FPS increase & also lower psi not to mention this powder is in pellet form. Pellets burn different very much like a model rockets engine nothing like loose powder in turn also lowering psi. That's how they got away with that one & should not give the indication it would be safe to load loose powder or pellets of triple 7 with the exclusion of the (Magnum Pellets type triple 7) to 120gr by volume. I don't like pellets at all you crush one & accuracy goes all to hell. I have also found them to be very inconsistent in FPS at range with a chronograph. :ugeek:

Kingcreek

Re: New shooter needs help

Post by Kingcreek » August 17th, 2012, 2:50 pm

I spent any and all spare time in the last week fixing and reinstalling after a server crash at work. It's supposed to be nice this weekend and no matter what happens, I am going to get the knight disc at the bench and do some shooting! Through sqezer's considerable generosity I have some different bullets to try!

jbrown

Re: New shooter needs help

Post by jbrown » September 29th, 2012, 9:50 am

Kingcreek wrote:Thanks, I'll have to get a manual. I've been a shotgun, rifle, and pistol shooter for years- sometimes competitively. I've been reloading metallic cartridges for 30 years but never fooled with black powder.
I don't have any idea what to use for powder or projectiles. Any suggestions are welcome.
just like reloading. consistency. experiment with bullets powders sabots etc... but always do the same routine when loading. for me I have come full circle and went back to loose rs pyrodex(90 GRAINS) and barnes xpan
der copper bullets. after each shot i run a spit coated patch up and down the bore two times and my gun loads easy and shoots consistent. try loading with the same pressure on each shot. All in all each gun is slightly different so find what it likes
and find a consistent loading routine and stick to it. search Randy Wakeman and read. He has some good stuff and is honest about muzzleloading. all muzzleloaders have their opinions and experiences and at the end of the day it is what works for you.Good luck and clean that gun after use and it will last you for life. Rust #10.